Climate Conversations S1E4: Making MIT's Campus Sustainable

00:00:06:27] RAJESH: Welcome to a Climate Conversation. I'm here in Cambridge with Laura and Dave.

[00:00:12:25] LAURA: Hi, Rajesh. How are you?

[00:00:13:29] DAVE: Hey, good morning.

[00:00:15:19] RAJESH: Hi, Laura. Hi, Dave. There's lots of things happening. But I think Dave has the most interesting new news. Dave, tell us the exciting thing that you heard about last week.

[00:00:26:26] DAVE: Oh, yeah, I'm glad to share that. And in particular, it's Climate Central's Climate Risk Tracker. And what you do there is simply go on the Climate Central website and find the Climate Risk tool and put in your zip code. And you can see immediately what sea level rise will look like in your community.

[00:00:50:19] LAURA: No way.

[00:00:51:18] DAVE: Yeah, it's really simple.

[00:00:53:18] LAURA: Is it looking at 10 years in the future or 100 years in the future, giving the timeline for the sea rise?

[00:00:59:29] DAVE: Yeah, you can vary it depending on the time that you're talking about, what time horizon, yeah.

[00:01:05:26] RAJESH: Huh, wow. A very interesting tool. Where did you find out about it?

[00:01:10:16] DAVE: Well, I was in Winthrop, Massachusetts, which is right across the water from Logan Airport. So this is a coastal community that's really vulnerable. And when you type in Winthrop, Massachusetts into the Climate Central tool, there's a lot of red and yellow on the map of Winthrop.

[00:01:28:18] And this was part of a listening tour for State Senator Mark Pacheco who was the Chair of Clean Energy Committee in the Massachusetts Senate. And he has been going around the state the last couple of months just listening to what's on folks' minds in terms of climate.

[00:01:47:12] LAURA: Well, it's nice to know that there's someone out there willing to listen. It reminds me a little bit of the discussion we were having with John Riley, the big data. And that seems like, as a tool, that must be so difficult to get that level of data and accuracy to be able to measure that kind of thing, so many different variables. I'd be interested in how they--

[00:02:07:06] DAVE: Yeah.

[00:02:07:21] LAURA: --made that.

[00:02:08:18] DAVE: The posts that we've had around Larry Susskind, Professor Larry Susskind's video talk that we had with him--

[00:02:19:06] LAURA: Yeah, it was interesting some of the things he was talking about. it surprised me, after watching the video, how much more interested he is in adapting right away, tackling this head on before we get round to doing any kind of mitigation and the fact that you actually need to make these adaptations, these changes, straight away before you can even start thinking about convincing the public to believe in climate change on a wide scale. So what have we got going on in this week's episode then, Rajesh?

[00:02:48:12] RAJESH: Well, we've got Julie Newman, who is the head of the Office of Sustainability at MIT, will be telling us how she thinks about the future of climate mitigation and adaptation within MIT'S own infrastructure.

[00:03:02:17] LAURA: Awesome.

[00:03:03:00] DAVE: And I'm really excited to hear about the Julie's connection with other similar campuses around the world. She had an international conference here at MIT last September. And I know she's been in touch with people around the world about what they're doing on their campuses. So we can compare and contrast MIT with lots of other similar places.

[00:03:24:13] RAJESH: Fantastic. Well, let's go listen to what Julie has to say.

[00:03:28:10] LAURA: Cool.

[00:03:28:29] RAJESH: We are so happy to have Julie Newman here. Welcome, Julie.

[00:03:32:13] JULIE NEWMAN: Thank you.

[00:03:33:09] RAJESH: Yeah, Julie is the director of the Office of Sustainability here at MIT, which is trying to figure out how MIT as an institution is going to become a sustainable institution. So, Julie, tell us a little bit about how you became the director of sustainability, what brought you here, what excites you.

[00:03:56:06] JULIE NEWMAN: Yeah, so how I got here, so my educational background has been focused on environmental management and policy since my undergraduate days. And I carried that through my master's and PhD work. And professionally, I've had some really unique forks in the road where I started off as an undergrad with a mentor who made me feel less like a misfit because my interest in environment has always been the intersection of science, policy, and people. And I found this mentor literally within my first week at the University of Michigan who focused on rivers as the environmental point of focus and brought into that context history, environment, technology, economy, culture, and recognizing that one needs to look at all environmental problems through that lens. That was before the term sustainability was even used. So that has been my lens on society for the past almost 30 years now.

[00:04:56:10] I'd say there were a couple of turning points. One of them, I became a Peace Corps volunteer, second generation Peace Corps volunteer, and had the unique opportunity to live in Guatemala for two and a half years as an environmental management volunteer. And in that moment I was truly exposed to the challenge of development, environment, culture, economy, and poverty. And in that moment I also just was trying to make a decision.

[00:05:21:23] I actually had an opportunity to work for AID, came back, went right into graduate school to try to study sustainability and hit this wall in my graduate degree where they said, no. You can't study all of that. You can either study policy or you can study science or you can study biology and was pushed into a two-- I ended up with a dual degree to try to look at science, policy, and sustainability. And I thought--

[00:05:44:10] DAVE: There was no degree in everything studies?

[00:05:46:23] JULIE NEWMAN: No. There was no degree that brought these pieces together or a person that enabled that. I mean, this was exactly 20 years ago now. And that's when I became exposed to thinking, oh, my gosh, higher education. If I can't get a degree in this, what are we going to do?

[00:06:03:00] And at the time, the university-- I was at Tufts University, actually-- was one of the first institutions to sign off on something called the Talloires Declaration, which was, Jean Meyer, the president of Tufts at the time in Talloires, brought university presidents together and said, how are universities going to start to drive and enable and understand a move toward sustainable development globally? And I ended up working for a group that did that.

[00:06:30:04] Anyway, fast forwarding, my mentor was hired to go to the city of New Hampshire. And we started the first Office of Sustainability in the country in 1997. And then, seven years later, I was recruited to Yale to found the Office of Sustainability at Yale. And then in 2013, I got a similar call and was invited to launch the Office of Sustainability at MIT. But the crux of all of this is that same lens in which we look at environmental issues through people in health, culture, economies is exactly what I do every day.

[00:07:08:12] RAJESH: How many offices of sustainability are there in the country now, or something like that?

[00:07:13:19] JULIE NEWMAN: Oh, boy. You know, that's a great, great question. I know, through the national group, there are about 800 signatories to a variety from climate to reporting out on stars. But that's not all national. So, to be honest, I actually don't know how many there are today. But in that short period of time, we've gone from a couple to in the hundreds.

[00:07:36:10] RAJESH: Wow.

[00:07:36:18] DAVE: Julie, I saw on your website that you were a co-founder of the New England or maybe Northeast Campus Sustainability Consortium?

[00:07:45:04] JULIE NEWMAN: Yeah, in 2003--

[00:07:46:06] DAVE: What was that about?

[00:07:46:29] JULIE NEWMAN: --or 2004, I thought, all right, now I have colleagues. And I started to reach out to them and I found all the ones I could in New England. And I was in the transition from UNH to Yale at the time. And I said, why don't we all come together? And let's look at what we can do in the next decade.

[00:08:06:04] Because that was the time when the UN had said the UN Decade of Education for Sustainable Development. So I used that as my framework and an opportunity to bring all of these folks together. And there may be, I want to say, 45 of us at the time. They weren't all sustainability directors. That might be a little too many, but about 40 or so people, 45.

[00:08:28:18] We all joined together. And out of that meeting we said, let's commit to the UN Decade of Education for Sustainable Development and meet annually. And it became this peer group of sustainability educators, directors. There were still some recycling people in the mix until that evolved.

[00:08:46:23] And we stuck to it. It's still going. I've since removed myself from it. So it could really, really grow. But it's been a fabulous, I think, grassroots demonstration of how people can come together.

[00:08:57:04] And we actually created a 10-year plan at the time. And each state was going to host a meeting as a way to, when you had a node, other people would join in on the meeting. So at this point, thousands of people have come together over that. I think it's been 13 years now.

[00:09:11:11] DAVE: Yeah, so what do sustainability offices do?

[00:09:17:05] JULIE NEWMAN: I love my job. I mean, this is one of the most unique roles. And after three offices, I've now learned how to build, I'd say, a high-efficiency organization as well. So the role of our office is relation-based.

[00:09:31:24] So the role of our office is to, at the most basic level, integrate sustainability principles, data metrics, visions into all operational areas of an institute. So that covers from building design and construction and energy to land and water, storm water, to mobility and access to procurement to waste and maybe a couple of other things in between. But that's what it covers.

[00:10:04:10] Now, keep in mind, nobody is responsible for any of those areas and actually reports to me. So the role of an Office of Sustainability is to have a deep understanding as to what everybody's responsibility is, what the system dynamics are between those, and then work with them. And an institution like MIT, it's via committees, task forces, studies, research to then begin to understand what the current dynamic is.

[00:10:36:04] What's the baseline? How are we performing making decisions today? And with sustainability in mind, whether it's to increase, decrease, our impact whatever it is, whatever function we're talking about, is to then work with them to come up with, where do we want to be? How does it relate to all of the other dynamics on campus? What's the behavior that's included? And then how do we move towards that vision over time?

[00:11:00:07] In a role like mine, it also includes living lab, and so engaging, being in that gray space between research, teaching in the campus and opening up the campus for teaching and research. And the other one is strategic partnerships, so working with the city of Boston, Cambridge. And I work closely with a variety of international groups as well.

[00:11:19:23] RAJESH: So tell us a little bit more about the living lab. Because that strikes me as an MIT innovation.

[00:11:26:23] JULIE NEWMAN: Living lab is a complex dynamic. In our field, in the field of sustainability and higher education, it's a framework and a concept that's been around, I would argue, for 15 years. Because it was recognized as the space between how our institution's educating our students. When a student comes onto a campus, what are they learning from the way the buildings are built, the way that they're interacting with staff, the transportation that's offered to them, the way that they're either able to produce or dispose of their garbage, food-- oh, that was what I left out, food. And living lab was a space that sustainability offices could own because it didn't fit into an academic classroom or a center and it didn't fit into a research lab.

[00:12:14:06] So that said, though, I would say it's been slow to take off. There are some great examples we can point to. Now, having arrived at MIT, back to the question, this is what MIT is about. This is an Institute of applied research. So now is our chance to really try to frame and scale and understand what an impactful living lab, living and learning lab, can be. We hired one of the first living lab managers in the country, actually, within the past year. And we've since helped other institutions hire somebody similar.

[00:12:48:09] But in short, I'd say it's going to be interaction with students, being able to access data. We're actually trying to automate opportunities for a living lab and we're building a sustainably data hub where students can get in to building energy, waste, mobility, and do their own analytics without actually having to interact with a person in that context. So there will be more robust uptake from that perspective.

[00:13:11:23] We're running a sustainability incubator fund where faculty, staff, and students can apply for funding as a group and actually do the research on campus. And that's a fabulous example of a living lab, where the requirement is that it's data-driven and their research actually has to have a measured impact on the campus and working closely with the staff responsible for that.

[00:13:35:02] DAVE: So what's an example of a living lab project?

[00:13:38:17] JULIE NEWMAN: One great example is, with the sustainability incubator fund, we recently funded one of the most innovative researchers I've come across who's seeking to move from lab to market. And all of a sudden he realized, through a connection he and I made, he could actually move from lab to power plant to market. He's created a device by which to capture the water that's often lost in the cooling process in a power plant. And rather than go to attempt it somewhere else, he's actually working with the manager of our own plant to determine how this device can function.

[00:14:21:12] If this is to succeed, it could save the institute up to 10 million or more gallons of water per year. But that's in the theory. That's in the model, if you will. So that's a perfect example of a living lab where you found a partnership between faculty, student, group, internal staff, and hardware, if you will, on the campus that we can use as a testing ground. And then you're not going to China or Vermont or somewhere else. You can do it right here and have an impact on our very own area.

[00:14:56:07] RAJESH: So it looks like you are now incubating lots of these experiments, right? So is that where the cutting edge of the office of sustainability is? So what do you think is the envelope that you're really pushing?

[00:15:14:25] JULIE NEWMAN: That's a very tricky question. Because, upon arrival, I've attempted to launch an office and have impact in a three-year period, a three- to four-year period. And I can argue that we've done that in the sense that we've built the relationships.

[00:15:30:29] We have good data. We've already demonstrated a reduction in our greenhouse gases. We've already demonstrated a reduction in mobility. But I would argue that's not the cutting edge. That's the essential foundation that's needed. And when you're working, doing sustainability work, I would say where the rubber meets the road, if you will, is it's the people dynamic, you know?

[00:15:51:11] So one of the trickiest things about my job but what keeps me in this is that I get to interact with all sorts of thinkers and learners and doers. And so in the foundational work, you need people to come onboard. You can't just demand an institute to become sustainable or to become climate neutral.

[00:16:10:05] I mean, sure. I think if you could wave your wand, sure. Wouldn't that be nice? Although it would miss the fun. Because so much of the fun is watching people start to say, oh, I've done this the same way for 20 years. I never thought of that.

[00:16:22:26] So, foundationally, I think what we've done is set in motion governance structures or data collection processes, making data available. We still have a lot of work to do on capacity building. I'd say the cutting edge is going to be figuring out how do we continue to both scale this up?

[00:16:40:09] So we've set a 10% reduction goal, for example, in transportation, in reduction in single occupancy vehicles to campus. All staff and faculty for phase one have access to free public transportation. But the transit system in the city of Boston also needs work, right? So it's not a perfect system. So I think the next cutting edge will be the continued engagement with our public transportation systems, with the local industry partner so that it's not MIT acting as a lone innovative mobility system, if you will.

[00:17:16:03] RAJESH: So just throwing out a wild idea, do you think autonomous vehicles will change your world?

[00:17:24:24] JULIE NEWMAN: That's a great question. So on the mobility front, we're starting to open up and say, what-- I have so many things to share with you. I mean, how do you plan for a campus in the uncertainty? And so much of what the role of my office is doing is that.

[00:17:41:13] So what we do is we think about foundational. Then we work in the cutting edge around uncertainty. So uncertainty may be in the form of, what's the future of the autonomous vehicle? Can we actually get rid of parking garages? Do we redesign the campus and the roads for that? Do we come up with more flexible hours, if you will?

[00:18:01:03] But the other uncertainty is around climate change and risk. So at the same time as autonomous vehicles, we're also working with some of the same groups to say, OK, we're now doing predictive modeling on climate vulnerability. One of the discussions I had yesterday is we don't know what the perfect 100-year storm is. So what do you design to? We don't know how materials are going to change or what can now be recycled in a new way. So a lot of what the role of my office is is to embrace that uncertainty and work with people in the system to anticipate those various scenarios from autonomous vehicles to climate resiliency to material flow, if you will, and figure out how to plan for that in the most concrete yet flexible manner.

[00:18:46:25] DAVE: So one of the things that your office does is make all those variables visible--

[00:18:50:25] JULIE NEWMAN: Exactly.

[00:18:51:20] DAVE: --to all the key players in the MIT community.

[00:18:55:02] JULIE NEWMAN: Exactly. It's terribly exciting. Because part of-- I'd say, back to a cutting edge question, to me, the research being done in the labs here, so much of what we have found is quite cutting edge. But it often ends up being directed out. It goes out. It goes out through academic papers, through conferences, through very traditional academic, which is totally appropriate.

[00:19:16:00] Our role is to mine so much of that and figure out, can we bring back in? If that material is being sent out that way, how can we integrate it into our own thinking? If that group is working on autonomous vehicle planning, how do we have them influence our own thinking as we look out to where MIT will be in 50 years and so on?

[00:19:36:24] And it takes time for people to warm up to that. And it's difficult to make decisions on a frame with a certain or ROI or a certain budget when uncertainty is involved. But it's possible, I'm learning. And we can plan for it.

[00:19:53:01] I think this strive to become carbon neutral is one of the most difficult challenges that I think all of our institutions face. And we're working on a course next year called Solving for Carbon Neutrality that we'll be supporting. And it's a really difficult-- we've been meeting with faculty all around the Institute. It's not one technology. It's exploring people who do ground source heat pumps, people who do nuclear technology, solar, nanotechnology, combustion, clean combustion, you name it.

[00:20:28:09] I've met with so many different faculty in really trying to explore. That's the cutting edge pieces. How do you bring these stories together but also make people aware that we have to think about solving for carbon neutrality at MIT within the context of the city, the state, the grid, the country? It's going to be the interaction at all of those levels. And the fact that MIT is willing to have those conversations is remarkable.

[00:20:57:05] DAVE: So it strikes me that what you're doing is really a model for lots of other scales, too, or other communities, not only other campuses around the world, but also cities, towns, states, different levels that also need to bring all the players together and tap into all the resources that are right in front of their noses.

[00:21:16:21] JULIE NEWMAN: Right. So uniquely, when we launched the Office of Sustainability here at MIT, we launched on just that platform. When I arrived and I quickly started meeting with folks from the city of Cambridge, Boston-- again, we're a unique Institute, right? Cambridge, we're situated, within Cambridge, with Harvard right down the road and we share a riverbank also with BU. It's so uniquely situated.

[00:21:41:08] So we launched on this platform that we've now framed a scales of impact, looking to understand what's the role of the individual, the campus, the city, the globe. We did not leave out national per se, the ideas that we were thinking about. You can fill in the spaces.

[00:21:57:00] RAJESH: Right.

[00:21:57:21] JULIE NEWMAN: And I've already seen peers start to adapt it at different scales as well. But campus, city, globe has really become our lens. And now we bring that into all decision making. So when we're sitting and talking about energy and greenhouse gas, we first look at what's the role of the individual, then what can happen on campus, what is going to be our interaction with emerging policy and in statutes within the city of Cambridge or within the state of Massachusetts, and how can we contribute at the global level.

[00:22:27:14] DAVE: Sure.

[00:22:27:19] JULIE NEWMAN: And as a result, our solution base opens up. Because it's not a matter of trying to sacrifice anything on campus. When people use that term, it's really a misnomer for sustainability. But how can we look at our interaction across systems? And that has just opened up conversations from the staff to the faculty to partnerships beyond.

[00:22:49:24] DAVE: So that's great. And one of the things that I picked out, one of the many things that I got from your website, was that 97% of the greenhouse gas emissions are through buildings at MIT. And I'm struck that, every time I walk through Kendall Square, I'm aware that MIT is becoming, at least East Campus, one huge construction site, now the partnership with the US Department of Transportation Volpe Center. You know, it's pushing even further over to the east. So what do you see as the opportunities through this huge construction boom over in East Campus for the Office of Sustainability?

[00:23:29:01] JULIE NEWMAN: Well, one of the impetuses, I believe, for bringing me to campus was that it was at the start at the outset of this major investment in deferred maintenance across campus and growth. So the leadership of MIT had the foresight to say, if we're going to be investing in campus expansion and campus growth and campus renewal, it's a campus that needed a lot of work. The focus has been research and teaching to the credit of MIT and now it's time to improve the system. They wanted to make sure they were doing it in the most sustainable way possible.

[00:24:02:24] So that's really what expedited so much of my work. I was quickly thrown into some projects to understand how decisions were made around growth and development and construction and energy sourcing and so on. So in that context, MIT, I think, is now challenged with, how do you grow your footprint and your capacity to contribute to global solutions, if you will, and to contribute to a livable community, which MIT embraces wholeheartedly? And how do you reduce the footprint, if you will, of the institute with respect to emissions, energy demand, energy use, storm water runoff, all of the pieces that we discussed?

[00:24:47:17] DAVE: So what we're wondering is how MIT can institutionalize some of these commitments that similar institutions have made in terms of being carbon neutral by a certain date, let's say 2030, that sort of thing.

[00:25:06:02] JULIE NEWMAN: MIT has taken, absolutely, in my mind, from an organizational change management perspective, the perfect next step, which is setting a robust climate action plan, I would argue one of the most robust in the country, which is the five-pillar climate action plan, which looks at research, teaching, policy, engagement, campus as a testbed and the growth in the low carbon energy centers, which is unbelievable and mind boggling in terms of what we've committed to on that front. So keep in mind that our contribution at the campus level is in that context of all of those pieces.

[00:25:41:28] I think that's really essential to understand. I'm not sure you'd be able to point to another institute that has that level of robustness. Many climate action plans are focused on just the campus. So keep that in mind. The net falls absolutely in line with this campus, city, globe.

[00:25:56:22] Now, in that context, when the goal was set, it was the first goal being set for MIT. And our systems, like I was talking about before, the human dimension, we're just starting to get into place of understanding, how do we collect data? What's our baseline? What do we want to include? What are the boundaries? Where are the opportunities?

[00:26:15:17] And so in round one, MIT appropriately aligned ourselves with, at the time, the Obama administration Clean Energy Plan, which was really a target on power plants. And, well, 97% of our buildings, of course, is majority sourcing, 50% of our electricity coming from our power plant and all steam and chilled water. So that 32% floor has really enabled us to start to get the gear started of, how do you rethink energy? How do you rethink design and construction? How do you rethink MIT'S relationship to the grid? All of that you have to ask in order to get decision makers to start to have maybe more incremental opportunities to start to change the way we think about doing business, if you will.

[00:27:04:01] And remember, we also are switching the units from dollars to metric tons. Phase one, the 32%, is perfect for that. In phase two, now that we have a good capacity, concurrently, everyone's looking beyond that. It's, how do you go beyond carbon 32%, again, the floor? And how do you then start to set a date for carbon neutrality? And how do we now begin to better align ourselves with the so-called science of that?

[00:27:30:26] We're on track towards that direction. And now we need to put in place a process by which to set a goal. At MIT, that's not going to be done by somebody telling us to do it. That's going to be done through committee, through deep analysis and understanding, and by a process.

[00:27:47:19] One of the first phases we've now put in place is to set a course in place called Solving for Carbon Neutrality in an effort to start to understand, how do we frame this? So in true MIT fashion, we've already had a public statement saying it's 32% below 2014 levels by 2030 aligned with the Clean Energy Plan with the desire to get to carbon neutrality by a to be determined date. So I think everyone just needs to join us and be patient and help us determine what that date will be in a way that aligns us with the MIT framework for solution development.

[00:28:23:12] RAJESH: So fantastic answers, many more questions. But we have to come to an end. And so we always ask this final question to all of our guests. And so we're going to pose that to you, too, Julie. If you have a magic wand and you could wave that magic wand and it would solve one problem, what would that be?

[00:28:47:05] JULIE NEWMAN: Mobility comes to mind. I think the notion-- I mean, one magic wand would be-- we are moving towards a culture-- you know, when we're talking about autonomous vehicles, I said there are still vehicles on the road, right? And so I think that's an exciting, curious manifestation of the intersection of technology and mobility. But moving people to and from a campus is a complex endeavor.

[00:29:11:27] And I think, if we can really start to better understand this, where MIT is, I would argue, leading the way this notion of flexible opportunities, we have a culture of people who are willing to take public transportation and are willing to endeavor in a flexible-- not, let's say, flexible workspace, but flexible mobility options. If we could really start to wave the magic wand where those options around public transportation became that much more reliable, accessible, on-time, then we would see, I think, a sea of change and potentially a car-less campus.

[00:29:50:11] RAJESH: Wonderful. So thank you so much, Julie. It was great having you here. And we hope to talk to you in five years to see where it all went.

[00:30:02:08] JULIE NEWMAN: Yes, please. I can't wait.

[00:30:03:22] DAVE: For more information--

[00:30:04:19] JULIE NEWMAN: I promise.

[00:30:04:27] DAVE: --folks should go to--

[00:30:06:04] JULIE NEWMAN: For more information, go to our website at MIT Office of Sustainability. You can search for that and that will bring you right to our site. And it's live. There's some fabulous blogs on there, great updated information. And it gives you a chance to learn about--

[00:30:23:09] We have a component on there for people who are new to this called Start a Study and Solve. So it's to attract and to appeal to the folks who are just thinking about this for the first time and to inviting folks who are already solvers at MIT to say, how do I get involved and what problems need to be solved? And we appeal to the gamut, hopefully.

[00:30:41:14] DAVE: It's a fabulous website. I encourage everybody to go right there right now.

[00:30:46:03] JULIE NEWMAN: Great.

[00:30:46:20] RAJESH: Thank you.

[00:30:47:07] JULIE NEWMAN: Thank you so much. Pleasure.

[00:30:50:09] LAURA: That was so interesting.

[00:30:51:09] DAVE: Yeah.

[00:30:52:13] LAURA: It's really great listening to what Julie has to say.

[00:30:54:24] DAVE: Well, and, for me, it's really exciting to hear stuff that's happening right here and now. This is not two years from now or 10 years from now. This is right now that Julie's engaged people across the campus.

[00:31:06:15] RAJESH: And if you have questions right now--

[00:31:10:08] LAURA: Yeah, get in touch with us, all three of us. David, Rajesh, and I are members on ClimateX. You can reach out to us directly there.

[00:31:18:08] You can reach out to us on Twitter and on Facebook. Just search MIT ClimateX and you'll find us. And you can email us. If you want to send an email requesting a specific guest or a question you want to ask, just reach out to us at climatex_feedback@mit.edu.

[00:31:38:04] RAJESH: We would love to hear from you.

[00:31:39:11] DAVE: Looking forward to hearing from you all, wherever you are.

[00:31:41:26] LAURA: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much, guys.

[00:31:44:01] RAJESH: Thank you.

[00:31:44:18] DAVE: Bye-bye.

[00:31:45:06] RAJESH: Bye.